Mar 19 2010
A Tale of Lists and E-mails
With corporate supporters of HSUS dropping like flies, it's natural that companies are beginning to be wary of any perceived connection to the super-rich animal rights group. Take the case of "Doctors Foster & Smith," a Wisconsin pet supply company.
The saga started on Tuesday, when a dog breeder sent us the following e-mail:
I made a chilling discovery last night. Drs. Foster & Smith, the company in Wisconsin where I buy some of my pet medications and other supplies (they are like PetEdge or JB Wholesale and carry everything from crates to cat toys) is either selling or giving their customer lists to H$U$.
How do I know this?
Because for the first time ever, I got a solicitation envelope from H$U$ in the post yesterday. Complete with the same bizarre misspelling of my own name, combined with my Dad's first name in place of my last name, that only Foster and Smith have ever done. I contacted F&S by email last night and still have heard nothing in response. I told them that I knew they were the ones who sold or gave away my name to H$U$, what I thought of H$U$ and why (and provided my website URL as a source of links to research information) as well as some more links, then asked them do do their homework and get back to me with their answers.
At the time, we were skeptical.
Here's what we wrote back to her:
I think it’s highly likely that the company sells its mailing list to a broker, and HSUS then rents the list from them. It’s very common in this day and age. So I’d guess that Drs. Foster & Smith probably have no idea who rents their lists, only that they get a commission any time someone does. You can always “opt out” by asking a company not to sell or otherwise share your personal information.
Case closed? Well, if you follow the HumaneWatch page on Facebook, you know that information gets quickly shared, passed around, verified, triple-checked, and so on. And you know that the companies involved in these sagas also read what we're saying. So it wasn't surprising when Drs. Foster & Smith started e-mailing lots of you on Thursday morning with the following denial (emphasis added):
We apologize for the recent concerns raised regarding the HSUS (Humane Society of the United States) and questions raised concerning one of their recent mailings. The statement we released earlier explains that HSUS does not have a list of Drs. Foster and Smith customers and never has. Neither was your name included in any third part [sic] list rental.
Additionally, Drs. Foster and Smith does not finance political organizations and to be specific, have not financially supported HSUS or any other organization of perhaps a different persuasion than HSUS.
To view the complete release, please click on the following link: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=1075
Yeah, we know. The link is dead. And if you visit their "press room" web page, there's nothing there about this issue. But still, we figured that this denial was pretty airtight.
And then we heard from Danielle. She got the Thursday morning e-mail, but she also got a different one on Wednesday at 6:10pm. She shared the complete message with us, including the headers that show where it came from. She also notes that the e-mail had "my LEGAL name on it--the one I don't give out, the one on my credit cards." This is the real deal (again, emphasis added):
We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward.
If we can be of additional assistance, please contact our Internet Customer Service Department at 1-800-381-7179, via email or on our Live Help link. Live Help is available 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. CST Monday through Friday and 7:30 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. CST weekends.
So what's the deal? We're not suggesting that anyone light their torches and sharpen their pitchfork tines, but talking out of both sides of your mouth doesn't make for good customer service. It's the kind of behavior we expect to see out of an animal rights group.
As always, our e-mail box is open.
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Comments
I only buy from F& S occasionally, but now it will be not at all. Thanks for the info!
I am ready to buy my spring vaccines - I spend about $1100 per year on them. I will watch this with great interest
If humanewatch had been started a year earlier (in current form) in exposing HSUS, we possibly could have stopped Prop 2 in CA. Unfortunately a series of events, including 5 HSUS lawsuits, stopped the egg people from doing a good job against the truth. by then it was too late.
Misled voters for Prop 2 likely didn’t have a clue as to what they were doing. HSUS also came up with a companion bill to Prop2 which said that any eggs coming into CA must meet Prop2 standards and it would be a criminal offense if they breached the standard. such standard hasn’t been devised yet; the legislature finally tossed the bill after deciding it might violate the commerce clause.
I too got an e-mail that read the same as Danielle’s stating that they had shared info with HSUS, and then another the next day retracting that. I also got a HSUS solicitation in the mail for the fist time in about 5 years this week. Things that make you go hmmm…
I have lost all confidence in them and asked to be removed from their mailing list.
I have maintained an account with them for a few years and order my box of 25 Pfizer puppy vaccinations each year. One litter will pretty much use up the full box when they complete the full series. I also have ordered Interceptor for heartworm and parasite treatment.
This evening I went to the site and filed my displeasure that they have apparently violated their own privacy policy as posted on the website. I asked them to cancel my account and remove all records of me.
I have no interest in monitoring this sort of thing. I just figure, cross me once and I won’t give you the chance to cross me again.
They are now deleting any negative comments on their Facebook page. I’ve posted several times asking them to clarify how to opt out of having your name shared with others and to categorically state whether or not the company supports HSUS. They don’t answer and instead delete the question. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with adequate answers to the above questions. They have now lost my business for good.
I am so happy that I am seeing people fight again to save their freedoms in this country. Your issue is just one of many. Why is it that some people are allowed to violate the trust of others. I am saddened that a huge company who claims to love animals such as these big organizations like PETA and HSUS turn out to be a bunch of money grubbing crooks. Here’s to our freedoms to retaliate in this country. Hear, Hear to the Constitution of the United States of America. Perhaps PETA and HSUS should be given a copy of it. Nancy…just an interested bystander.
We need to let F&S know that it does not matter if they delete comments from their own page. The word about their actions is still getting out.
And the word of their deletions will ALSO get out, which adds to the bad news for them.
A boycott may be useful, but only if those being boycotted are informed that it is happening and why. Be sure to tell them what you are doing and the precise reason.
Hm. From the look of these comments- F&S is going to have to sit up and take notice before they really start to loose customer support and cash.
(captcha: hundreds commute. Hmm captcha agrees?)
A Statement from Dr. Race Foster and Dr. Marty Smith
March 23, 2010
We want to thank you, our customers, for pointing out a concern about a recent mailing you received from a particular organization. We want to apologize for the situation and the concern that this has caused. Additionally, as we said last week, we want to assure you that in no case did that organization have a copy of our mailing list, nor do they now.
“Regarding mailings, in the course of doing business catalog companies and other direct marketers rent mailing lists or small portions of them. These lists are never seen by the renting company, rather, to maintain confidentiality, they are processed by independent data services and then the names are submitted to printers for application onto catalogs or other mailing pieces. Such is the case here. Although the list the organization rented through a third party was less than 1% of our total mailing list, I was unaware that they were renting any portion and will be sure that this doesn’t happen again. Let me reassure you that they don’t have a copy of our mailing list and never did as some have falsely suggested. That’s not how these rentals function. Because of how they do work with divided mailings, distance mailed and postal delay, a very small number may trickle in over the next week or two. We apologize for the concerns that have been created and have taken steps to assure this doesn’t happen again.“
Dr. Race Foster
“I just want to reassure you, our customers, about who we are as a company and who Race and I are as individuals. First we want to apologize for the wording of the first statement from our company regarding the mailing in question that gave the impression that an advocacy group had our list of names. They didn’t. In our hurry to reassure you we didn’t do a good enough job explaining the facts. Our second statement attempted to clarify the facts but some understandably read the two statements as contradictory rather than clarifying. We apologize for that as well. The facts are also that we have always been strongly supportive of ethical breeders and continue to be strongly supportive today. Further, we are opposed to legislation that would hinder ethical breeders from participating in their hobby or profession. I am a breeder myself and just recently had a litter of 8 English Setter puppies. Thanks for your loyalty and patience with the process. And once again, we apologize for the confusion and the issue itself.”
Dr. Marty Smith
I agree and will not being doing business with them because of this. I also have gotten solicited by the HSUS. Thanks for bringing this up
i can always opt out by asking a company not to sell or otherwise share your personal information.
Now the “dead link” has been updated to “getting to know us” and emphasizing the good they do, etc, rurally raised homegrown vets and how they are involved in animals.
I still asked to be removed from their mailing list. They should have just come clean in the first place, apologized, said “we screwed up” and “we have learned now that HSUS is not what it wants to appear as”. That’s how you handle a PR screw up. be honest and admit it.
I think it’s highly likely that the company sells its mailing list to a broker, and HSUS then rents the list from them. It’s very common in this day and age. So I’d guess that Drs. Foster & Smith probably have no idea who rents their lists, only that they get a commission any time someone does.
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Add a comment:
I’ve been a longtime and loyal customer of F&S for decades. I expect a minimal amount of loyalty in return. I’m sure they share customer information but expecting them to limit HSUS, PETA, etc. access is not the least bit of an unreasonable expectation in my book.
“And I’m none too happy with Drs Foster & Smith right now. They’ve denied financially supporting HSUS and denied that HSUS has a copy of their customer list but they have NOT denied that they “share” their customer’s contact information with others which could included HSUS. I’ve shopped with them for as long as I can remember but not for now. They’re probably going to have to do some backing up just to disclose and make an apology and, if they don’t do that, I sure won’t shop with them again. Beyond that, it will just depend on what they have or have not actually done.”
http://pjboosinger.viviti.com/entries/general/either-way-hsus-gets-paid
Torches lit, pitchfork tines sharpened, stand by mode. I’m no longer willing to be quite so forgiving of those who should know better - like F&S. No intent to crush them or do any permanent damage but they need to get the message rather than get off too easy.