What is the problem with promoting Vegan-ism?  I do not see a negative here if this article is supposed to be negative….

people like Park love to throw around big numbers to shock their audiences.

I can count, too. can you?

the world population is around 6.5 Billion (give or take, what’s a few hundred million between friends). Assuming everyone has the opportunity to eat at least once every day- and wouldn’t that be a true miracle??- multiply 6,500,000,000 by 365 = 2,372,500,000,000 meals divided by that 48 billion annual worldwide animals slaughtered for food number she tossed out means that each animal represents 49.427 people fed.

so where did she come up with these numbers? watch carefully folks, bc this magic trick moves fast. why, out of thin air!  I could suggest another location she pulled them out of…  the point is it’s nothing but panic inducing shock treatment to the uneducated masses. when you compare them to the number of people who live on this planet and need to eat to survive, it’s pretty impressive how well her own number stretches to feed the planet.  anyone care to ask her about it next time she has a public speaking engagement?

How long are people going to use the “free country” bs?  What are you 8 yrs. old? How about considering morals and ethics when making decisions in life? Specifically about the lives of other sentient beings.

The problem, Tami, sweetheart, is that you vegan religious fanatics are hell-bent on forcing the entire world to join your cult, whether we want to or not. Your tactics run the gamut from horror stories about the supposed “dangers” of meat, (and alleged mistreatment of livestock), to convincing moron lawmakers that food is “addictive” and should be regulated like narcotics.

If you kids in any way repsected other peoples’ right to eat how and what they want, no one would have a problem with veganism. The fact you quite conspicuously and loudly DO NOT is where lies the problem.

@Tami- our problem isn’t with Veganism, it is with the mentality of the activists’ that “because we don’t like it, no one else should do it”. It seems to me that those of us who are Ominvores do not go around pushing are eating habits on others. The negative that we are seeing from this story is that our beliefs and lifestyles are being targeted. It is not because we don’t care for the animal, in my opinion, those of us that are in the industry are way more focused on the welfare of the animal. The activists tend to fly off the handle about things without doing real research to find out why certain practices are done or not done in animal agriculture.

Thanks for letting us hear it for ourselves. Makes the grrr factor even bigger.

I love the use of the word ‘welfare’ when they clearly are in favor of and actively seeking animal RIGHTS. I heard Paul Shapiro speak a few weeks ago, and he did the same thing - used the word ‘welfare’ over and over again.

Hmm…seems as if they pick and choose terminology based on the audience…

I’m gradually understanding the two-sidedness of HSUS, but I highly doubt they can force the entire world to bend to their “vegan wills.” Come on. Tami’s question stems from a misunderstanding about what this article is exactly about. Someone who closely follows this website and understands the concept of HumaneWatch probably understands the point of this article. But an outsider sees it as something, quite frankly, anti-vegan. Perhaps a better explanation about why this article is against HSUS and their sudden support of veganism would make things more clear. That being said, HumaneWatch’s response to Tami makes sense, so why not put a better explanation like that in the article? It may be redundant, but if you want to attract people to your cause then state your information in laymen’s terms!

And BADKarma…I hate responding to people like you because it just fuels the fire, but how about offering explanations instead of insults? Stop abusing the fact that the internet makes you anonymous.

John,
I can promise that if fate had you raised in a country where freedom was an exclusive privilege and not a foregone right, ‘animal rights’ probably wouldn’t be your highest priority in life. Animal welfare, however, can be practiced by any income level, ethnicity or social background by just showing a bit of compassion….a basic human instinct that, I’m pretty sure, still exists globally today without having to give up meat in their diet. Its done by farmers and hunters all the time….

Some of those who post are a hoot. With half the U..S population being FAT with associated health issues a few veggies wouldn’t hurt. People can eat what they want but I assume that most who post here would want the animals they consume raised in a humane mannor. Maybe I am wrong In this country we do not eat dogs,cats or horses as they do in some parts of the world. Some would eat anything that doesn’t eat them first-go figure. Whole Foods has excellent products but it is not cheap to shop there. Their home made goods are a cut above

Em,
RE: HumaneWatch’s comment above. They have said this particular comment in every shade of the rainbow. Its a blog. If they said it in the same shade of black and white all the time….they’d lose people’s interest. Secondly, the multitude of supporting info they provide is what most people need to determine credibility. They’ve done this remarkably well. Which you’ll see ifall this for yourself if you keep up with the blog regularly. And for those that are newbies, I believe they have a pretty clear section designated on their homepage (top right)....hope this helps!

Hi Have any of you looked at the 5 step animal rating?  I just went to the site and read it.  Some things don’t bother me and I think animals can be raised that way since I have been on a farm all of my life.

A few points do:  Step 1 is No cages, crates or crowding——does that include calf hutches, stantions, milking parlors?  We still need ways to catch and work with animals especially milking cows to get the milk each day. 

Step 5 is no altering animals—-as in no branding, clipping, snipping and nose rings——are they implying that we can’t mark our animals with ear tags and brands for identification?  How about clipping—can’t clip hair for cleanliness, (I think it may be clipping of wings on poultry-but you never know), snipping—does that include no castration of male animals? That could be an unsafe prospect having a bulls instead of steers. Nose rings—no nose rings on bulls—that is a way of controlling the animal since a halter would be somewhat useless. 

Step 5+—-there is another step.  Animals should not move from their original birth place.  Animals should be butchered on the farm—cattle & hogs.  Chickens can go for a short ride to be butchered (which I find funny—I think they would be easier for someone to handle at the farm than a large animal)  So no animal movement—-I guess that is to eliminate these big beef lots and chicken farms.  What about getting chickens from a hatchery—can we do that? 

I guess I like to use this site as a way to see what is happening in the general public to educate myself as a farmer.  Thanks for keeping us informed and providing a discussion area to make our points.

How long are people going to use the “free country” bs?

says John..
how about I get you a one way ticket to .. say..Zimbabwe.. ??
no BS there..no freedom either.. I would love to see how long you lasted..

Sandy says:
Some would eat anything that doesn’t eat them first-go figure.

yes go figure.. also a plane ticket for you..one way..Maybe to Uganda.. you and John can “meat” up at some point to discuss freedom..and of course hunger…

I don’t think HSUS will ever meet its goal of converting even substantial numbers of humans to veganism - our bodies reject it, which is why I have met so many people who tried to be vegans, but couldn’t make it work.

But I do think its important to make HSUS’s (and its associates’) agenda clear, which you have done here. Bravo!

BADKRAMA I said it to you before and now I’m going to say it again I LIKE THE WAY YOU POST THINGS—you tell it like it is. Keep up the good work.

@ john as far as I know I live in a free country and it’s no BS. I have the right to back-talk to any AR group I want. I won’t become a vegan, the farmers and ranchers do an excellent job rasing meat, and the meat is USDA inspected—that’s good enough for anyone.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, Whole Foods, Inc clearly has a full service list of products that include seafood as well as meat.  To have someone on their board whose goal is to eliminate roughly 1/3 of their business is not in the best interest of their bottom line. It seems that some may have missed that projection and its business implications for the future of whole Foods.

Just one more reason to dislike Whole Paycheck. I’ve never understood some people’s obsession with shopping there. Overpriced subpar foodstuffs, rude employees and even ruder patrons. I think it’s more of a status symbol TBH.

Maybe HSUS owns into Whole Foods?
Maybe HSUS is playing on both sides, making money either way? Sounds like them.

I would like to thank those of you who took the time to explain the problems with the article.  I was asking genuinely and did not ever state that I am a vegan OR religious fanatic… I was just wanting to understand where the negatives were… I am more inclined to agree with people having the freedom to chose their own foods and finding a way to marry that with the humane treatment of animals EVEN when they are raised for food.  Thank you again for explaining and it looks like to me that maybe BADKarma is a little more on the “fanatic” side..

Tami if a person is a vegan that’s OK with me—it’s a free country, do what you want. But when PETA or any group comes in to my grandkids’ school with pamphlets that tells them their mother is a murderer for feeding them meat. THAT’S WRONG! I think you can see where I’m coming from.

Hi Regan - I totally agree with you!  That is wrong!  When my daughter was young, she came home and told me that she had told her teacher that I was a drug addict… they were teaching them that smoking cigarettes is a drug and I smoke….  Lots of explaining to do there!
I think there are definitely boundaries that are crossed in many areas.  I am sorry that PETA or any other organization would way overstep their boundaries like that.
These are controversial subjects to say the least.  That is why I do try to read up and keep up when I can on what all is going on.  And I do appreciate all the views - just wish there was a way for everyone to respect each other’s opinions in these situations as well.

Tami,

As a farmer, I can tell you that HSUS is not the least bit interested in respecting the way I raise animals. Period. No discussion. It’s their way (which ultimately is no raising animals for food at all, ever) or nothing.

I understand vegetarians and their choice to not eat meat. Every vegetarian I know is respectful and doesn’t act as if they’re better than anyone else - they’ve made a choice and most people don’t even know that they are vegetarians. Vegans, however, are usually somewhat militant and believe that everyone should do as they do. HSUS promotes veganism - and that’s the problem in one vegan nutshell.

@ Sandy S No, there is nothing much wrong with the 5 point list.

What is wrong is the idea that if all agriculture was meeting the requirement that it would satisfy the AR activists. It wouldn’t, because their position is that animal owenrship = aniam abuse.

If we were ever to get to the point where those five points were being met, they’d just raise the bar. They’ve been doing that with animal legislation for over thirty years.

Have you looked at what the egg producers on the West Coast are dealing with? In CA they rebuilt to meet the requirements, but, oops ... those requirements weren’t actually what the legislation meant, as interpreted by HSUS.

And BTW ... the ‘cage free’  requirements which HSUS claims to support won’t be supported for long, because putting a thousand hens on a barn floor is going to result in an unacceptable attrition rate (also providing an outrageous price for those eggs), and will soon be regarded as just as cruel as cages.

That’s what’s wrong with it.

@ Regan H - No, HSUS has nothing to do with Whole Foods.

What is happening is that Whole Foods is playing the ‘Appeasement Game’ - trying to get the AR activists off their back by throwing them a bone - so to speak - so they can conduct business without being their target. They hope.

It won’t work as long as they are willing to sell meat, eggs, fish, dairy and seafood.

I would just like to point out that regardless of what your values are, there are some irrefutable truths. One being that, having a COMPLETELY vegan diet is not healthy to EVERYONE equally. I have pernicious anemia, a big b12 deficiency. I also have been prescribed the B12 shots, etc. My body WILL NOT absorb the B12 in a shot, pill, etc, it only absorbs it from natural foods. You CANNOT get B12 in a sufficient enough amount in just MILK and MILK products, which is the ONLY foods that contain it if you do not eat milk or eggs. Meat is the form that naturally has this vitamin in a high enough amount to do any good. Not to mention that entities that eat meat naturally, if changed to an all vegan diet, will eventually get very very sick. IE and carnivorous animal.

I have been trying -as a responsible (?!!) adult to pay attention to certian things Im interested in. I dont eat meat mainly because I dont like how it tastes, but when I see one of those awful programs on TV about the abuse of the way animals are being raised it does make it easier to avoid meat. But the reason Im writing is because of Tami who seemed sincere in her question of is this a negative. I also wondered what they were trying to accomplish. The best thing I read was by EM- “stop abusing the fact that the Internet keeps you anonymous” We could use that line in a lot of places!  I read quote that I thought would be appropriate;
“The need to be right is the need of the EGO
the choice of peace is an act of the God/Godess who lives in you”

@John who made the comment above about morals and ethics vs “free country” BS—you are right on. Thank you for calling it like it is. “It’s a free country!” is a whiney, juvenile excuse for doing whatever you want no matter who it hurts.

Personally, I think everyone has the right to eat a healthy, natural diet.  Vegan diets are neither healthy, nor natural, and vegans do not live longer or suffer from less disease than people who eat a balanced diet consisting mainly of healthy meat and vegetables.

By healthy meat I mean things like 100% grass fed beef, fish, and pastured poultry.  (I have nothing against confinement raising of animals in itself, by the way, it’s just that what we feed animals in confinement is a bad combination of foods that results in very unhealthy meat, and that DOES need to be fixed.  What they eat affects what we eat, and as that’s increasingly realized, hopefully some innovative company will come up with a commercial livestock diet line that produces healthy meat.  Cattle raised outside on pasture would be better, but I’ll be just as happy to eat cattle raised in a pen on feed that produces meat high in Omega 3s and low in Omega 6s).

Grain isn’t particularly good for us, and neither are most of the modern selectively bred vegetables, so meat isn’t the only thing we’ve managed to ruin by not paying attention. 

@ Sandy - The weight problems we are seeing are almost exclusively due not to an ‘overconsumption’ of meat, but an overconsumption of *grain* products, and mostly refined grain products.

The idea that we eat ‘too much meat’ has been an AR rally point for over thirty years, but they don’t mention that from their point of view, ANY consumption of meat, dairy, eggs, seafood, honey, fish or any other animal product would be too much.

Diet should be a matter of personal choice, for everyone.

The difficulty I have is not with the vegan diet, per se, but with the deceitful promotion through legislation of the entire vegan lifestyle.

I know self described vegans who don’t understand that the Vegan Lifestyle has little to do with diet, and everything to do with politics. The purist vegans who are running the show have hijacked both the legislative process and the legal system to impose their ‘moral’ model on the rest of us.

Someone up-thread said they don’t see how it can be done. Well, it ought to be impossible, but even if they can’t do it in an absolute sense, they can certainly do a great deal to agriculture and to those of us who love anmals for companionship and recreation, who can’t wear synthetics, who can’t maintain our health without *some* animal protein in our diets.

Further - they have done a great deal of damage already Are you aware that in several Scandinavian countries and New Zealand they have outlawed Kosher slaughter? This should not only be an outrage to anyone who believes in freedom of religion, it should outrage anyone who cares about ‘humane’ slaughter. There is good reason to suppose that the ‘sacrificer’s cut’ IS the most humane slaughter method. But of course, there are fewer Jews who keep Kosher than most other groups, so they are very easy targets.

Can they do it? I don’t know - but I DO know that as long as we wait for them to succeed before actively opposing them, we WILL lose.

To those vegans who are not political, and see no reason to impose their choice on the rest of the world, please join us in actively opposing these extremist activists. Vegans who keep pets, ride horseback and wear wool and silk, and of course, vegetarians who use dairy products, eggs or seafood also have a great deal to lose.

@lynn…our kids being overweight also contributes to the fact that they do not get the proper exercise that we did when we were kids, we had no computers or hand games, we did not sit around and play with our cell phones 24/7..we woke up in the morning on the weekend and went outside and played til it was dark… we walked or rode bikes, our parents took us no where…..we did our chores, and the work was hard.  These kids today do not know what hard work is.

Whole Foods is becoming the Wal-Mart of the organic world. They bully their vendors with ridiculous pricing, They backed off on their support of non GMO. They are not who they say the are at all. Don’t shop there, say it with your dollars.

@ lunablue - Yes, the lack of exercise is certainly not helping. But if you look at those kids’ diets, I think you’ll find that a HUGE percentage of their diet is comprised of carbs - and super refined carbs at that. They are not eating a lot of eggs,dairy or meat. Most of them aren’t even eating a lot of vegetables. They are mostly living on processed corn, processed potatoes, processed wheat. Animal protein is the smallest part of their diets in most cases.

And that’s a problem.

If meat is supposedly the cause of obesity, then why is GRAIN used to fatten animals?  Why is it that all large carnivores are not built like Jabba the Hut?  Where are the fat, slow, sluggish cheetahs?  Yeah, I suppose there are thin animals that are herbivores.. otherwise the gazelles and zebra would be too slow and the lions a lot fatter?  But they eat grass and brush, generally never seeing any grain.  Most vegetarians I know chow down on lots of fattening grain products, much like cows.. though all they produce is hot air and no milk or meat.  I guess the ones that are thin after all that are simply suffering from malnutrition.

Tami,

I don’t know of anyone who is opposed to people making their own choices. There are benefits and risks in ANY diet.  Especially one that is not carefully followed and monitored. As humans, we do a pretty lousy job of this, regardless of the diet we are on. Knowledgeable vegans can live healthy lives…but one must be very educated and informed to insure that one receives all the proper nutrition the human body needs, and this is especially critical for growing children.  Any diet can also be abused.  I have known and read many vegans who have left veganism, due to health issues.  And whilst I believe that some can manage a healthy life, it is quite obvious that even those that have tried, have failed.  And there are very REAL healthy concerns.

There are also two types of vegans. There are those that choose to do as little harm as possible, and that have great compassion for all living things.  That compassion, of course, extending to humanity as well,  They try to live a life of harmony with the world around them.  These are the true vegans. 

Then there is a vegan abomination that exists to control others.  Their way, AND ONLY THEIR’S, is the morally correct way.  They bully those who don’t agree with them. They threaten those that don’t agree with them.  Their veganism is a means to an end.  And quite franky, many are “closet” omnivores. They are not true vegans in that they have NO compassion for humanity that does not agree with them.  So much for living in harmony with creation.  A true philosophical vegan demonstrates their belief by living and teaching.  And while they can be exquisitely passionate people, they are also exquisitely “gentle” people.

Perhaps there are some of these “gentle” persons involved with lobbying organizations, and large “humane” organizations, but the tactics and language used betray many that wear the “mantle” of true veganism like a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

There is philosophical veganism, and politco-terrorist veganism.  And the two have very little in common.

Rosebud,
it might better serve you to not contradict yourself when trying to make a point.
Here’s my case in Point. First this is what you said:
“I don’t know of anyone who is opposed to people making their own choices”
Then you go and blow that entire point with this comment: “Then there is a vegan abomination that exists to control others”
Here’s the reality. Humans are omnivores. Whether a person decides to eat as a Vegan or Eats greasy cheeseburgers served in Styrofoam boxes by the hundreds doesn’t change that Biological and scientific FACT. There’s a difference in how most meateaters look at things and how most Vegan abominations as you phrased it look at things. The carnivorous persons dont CARE what someone else eats. It’s their choice, their life (save for raising children). The Vegan and Vegetarian Zealots need more the sense of control over others in their lives than to actually look as sustainable food sources for the Globe.
If you actually look at the science behind foods, it takes far less energy and space to feed someone meat than it does to feed them based on a Vegan diet. Ideally, as omnivores, we need to eat portions of both plants and animals to maintain optimum health. However I’m not here to preach about optimum health. You eat what you want, but as soon as you (you being the vegan Zealots) try to tell ME what to eat I will give you the same consideration that the Predator gives it’s prey.
Think of how asinine the analogy is. The Vegan ( plant eating grazing animal) trying to tell the typical person (Carnivorous Apex predator) not to eat them. We all know how that turns out.

RonInDallas,

I made no contradiction. Note, The statement was a “vegan abomination” referring to a completely terrorist/militant segment of the vegan population. Notice, I did not lump ALL vegans together.  They are no more a single philosophy than Christians, Muslims, or Buddhists. Or veterinarians, alleopathic vs. homeopathic, and all sorts of things between. Or even psychotherapists, who use base their methods and treatments on a gamut of differing philosophies.  NO ONE GROUP is going to think in one dimension and in agreement. Vegans are no different.  My “abomination” remark was in reference to those vegans that use their “belief” much like any extremist uses terrorism. Like what Jim Jones or David Koresh were to Christianity, or the 9/11 terrorists were to Islam.  But not all vegans are militant. In fact, many aren’t, or at least those I know personally..  By the true definition of such…they are anything but militant. Passionate, yes…militant or hurtful, no.  A true vegan can be seen by their love of fellow human as quickly as their love of any living thing.  And what people choose to eat, IS their business.  Just as is our/their religion, or belief system is.  Just as our/their politics are.
As for health, there are many healthy vegans, and many very unhealthy vegans. Many have left the strict vegan diet, to be varying degrees of vegetarians.  Some incorporate small amounts of meat. But,  I can say the same for omnivores health overall.  LOTS of unhealthy omnivores. And to reduce this argument to a prey/predator is far too simple a comparison. After all, based on that logic, I can say that the predator always is relegated to the sick, old, or dying for it’s sustenance, NOT the freshest or “best” meat…because a healthy herbivore can usually escape a predator, and certainly one that may not have eaten for DAYS and may already be weak from hunger.  Remember, predators die from hunger just as their prey sometimes dies to feed the predator.  It’s a balance…so the predator doesn’t always win…nor do it’s young always survive.
My argument is that we treat anyone professing to be vegan the same way we complain about how we are judged as ‘breeders”.  If we don’t wish to be lumped together under a label, we should extend that same courtesy.  Quite frankly, the world needs individuals asking questions, and challenging the status quo. That includes EVERYBODY!
However, I will agree with you 100% that politico-terrorist vegans, (which aren’t truly philosophical vegans…) will not receive much in the way of respect or tolerance, since they themselves do not respect nor tolerate those that disagree with them. And because of their tactics, they will find themselves attacked.  But, just because someone is a vegan, doesn’t mean they “share” all militant beliefs, or are “radical” vegans.  And if we don’t wish to be painted with the same “brush”, we probably shouldn’t do it to others.  Until such time as they demonstrate they ARE radical.  Asking questions, is not a test of that radicalism.
My point, is…to “label” an entire group of people with a single definition yourself, is to expect it in return.  We hate the label “breeder”, but use the term “vegan” every bit as inclusively and hatefully.  It is neither tolerant, nor accurate.  However, I can tell you that many radical vegans are “closet” onmivores, which I find to be entertaining beyond belief.

I agree with those of you that mentioned you had checked out the “5 point rating system”, my husband and I hae found it to be really helpful.

Although we eat a great deal of lean meats we still eat several vegetarian (not vegan) meals too.

As far as the comments regarding Whole Foods offering “subpar food and rude employees/consumers” I don’t know where you shopped at but that has never been the case the 13+ stores around the country we have been to. Yes, they are a bit more expensive, but you DO get what you pay for. Their food is always excellent and they have a great notification system for what foods are organic and what foods are conventional in the produce section. I suppose you feel Trader Joes is too expensive and trendy too. After all they are more ethical than your local Wal-Mart or Kroger store. I am just saying…

Aside from that,  Thank You Humane Watch for keeping us up to date on the latest developments regarding animal rights and animal welfare Being the proud owners of two rescue Huskies we are always interested in staying abreast of what is going on conerning animal care

To each his own but for what you are paying too much for your food and no amount of arguing is going to refute that fact. It is very much a status symbol for many people. In fact studies have shown that those types of individuals are more hypocritical than average:

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/61003,news-comment,news-politics,hypocritical-greens-more-likely-to-cheat-and-steal-ethical-shoppers

That certainly explains a LOT. You are better off stocking up at your local farmer’s market and places like Trader Joe’s. Whole Paycheck has a few items that are difficult to find elsewhere but that does not redeem them. I’ve been to 5 of their establishments and that was more than enough. One of them in SoCal was probably the worst as far as the sheer amount of attitude I got. It’s a sad day indeed when a discount store like Grocery Outlet provides you with a better shopping experience :/.

Shouldn’t this be about shelters and taking care of animals that are in abusive situations?
All that woman said sounds like gobbolygook to me.
Let’s take care of the real problem, and get those dollars to the shelters and food and help the Doctors that take on the responsibilities of putting some of these broken animals back together.
Sounds like the hsus is just trying to line their pockets and hire people to write stuff with big words to confuse people into helping them. It is a sneaky way to build their money trees!!!!!!

HSUS, PETA, etc. should be dealt with the same way we deal with the KKK, shun them into silence and kick them out of the market place of ideas.  Good riddance to bad trash.

What happened to FREEDOM ??  If I chose to eat meat it’s MY CHOICE and MY FREEDOM to make that choice. 

My husband was a veteran who dedicated his life to the military and defending our FREEDOM !!!!  HELLO !! 

You are trying your best to force me to do something that you have no right to do.  It’s MY LIFE and I’ll live it the way I want whether I chose to be vegetarian or eat meat. 

BACK OFF !!  Mind your own business and leave me alone to mind mine. 

Becca   GOD BLESS THE USA !!

@ Rebecca - They are messing with all kinds of freedom, at all levels. They are messing with our inherent rights as humans to own and use animals, they are messing with our religious freedom - for Jews, Muslims, Christians and Pagans, just that I’m aware of.

Check this out: http://tiny.cc/mf7yf

This ruling isn’t even unconstitutional - NOWHERE in the Constitution are we guaranteed the ‘right to own animals’ or to ‘use animal products’.

That’s pretty scary, eh?

@ Keith - It’s a bit too late for that. See my post to Rebecca, and consider also that even if we stop donating to them, stop spreading their doctrine and stop supporting their legislation, we still have over 30 years of AR law to deal with.

In supporting HSUS and their AR associated organizations, we are accepting the idea that farmers, dog breeders, dog trainers, horse trainers, circuses, rodeos, zoos, and all the other animal interests they target are, in fact, as they claim, abusers.

This is just plain not true.

http://www.hsussucks.com

I am not against veganism I think all the power to those who choose to eat no animal products to make a difference to the animal world. However I myself am an omnivore, I enjoy meat, milk, eggs, fish etc. But I also am extremely compassionate toward animals. The hardcore animal activists would probably hate me, but so would those who hunt for sport, see animals as nothing more than something for us to abuse, control etc. I do like the idea of trying to make farming more humane, as factory farms could use some work. How someone chooses to eat is based on their conscience, and they should not go against the conscience as Bible says.

The HSUS does not help other shelters sooooo,i’m guessing this is where their money is going!And really they need to do something about our pets not about farmers trying to make a living,who the hell do they think they are?I didn’t eat meat most of my life(now i do)my daughter don’t eat meat,but the choice was ours noone needs someone else to make up our minds.We have a big problem in the world with our pitbulls & other dogs,its called BSL.law makers are killing them because of their breed, thats what they should be focused on.

I really hope that non of the so-called “vegans” or vegitarians use ANY of th following products:cake mixes,charcoal, glass,gelatin,emery boards,chewing gum,deoderant, fabric softener,crayons, cosmetics,chalk, fireworks,adhesives,stringed instruments,vitamins, shampoo, well, you get the idea. ALL of these things come from CATTLE. Next time you hear a vegan preaching, check to see if they drove on rubber tires or have make-up on. I just don’t like people screwing with my way of life when I work my a$$ off to bring you a safe and nutricious product.

@ Ron in Dallas “Think of how asinine the analogy is. The Vegan ( plant eating grazing animal) trying to tell the typical person (Carnivorous Apex predator) not to eat them. We all know how that turns out.

Sure - but that’s in nature, and we’re talking about politics.

And what is happening in politics is that they are incrementally, slowly, one species, one regulation at a time cutting *our* rights to ribbons.

They don’t have to outlaw anything to deprive us of the right to do it. All they have to do is make it too difficult, in practical terms.

Haven’t you been watching what is happening to dog breeders and rescues in Texas? Do you really believe all those breeders and rescues are ‘abusers’?

None were until The Guv signed the bills ... give that a think, eh?

Vicky L said: “Shouldn’t this be about shelters and taking care of animals that are in abusive situations?”

Well, sure - if you believe their ads and marketing. Which is what they want you to believe.

“All that woman said sounds like gobbolygook to me.”

Yep, when the facts don’t support your position, baffle ‘em with BS ... in a nutshell, what she said is that they aren’t saying it’s not OK to eat eggs, just that people should be eating so many eggs ... as a beginning.

The unwritten message being that next year they can eat fewer eggs, and the next even fewer, and pretty soon ... no egg consumption at all. Yay for HSUS.

[snip]

“Sounds like the hsus is just trying to line their pockets and hire people to write stuff with big words to confuse people into helping them. It is a sneaky way to build their money trees!!!!!!”

Oh, it’s much worse than that. They take public money from animal lovers and use most of it - after generous overheads and perks of course - to lobby for anti animal ownership laws,and laws to cripple agriculture.

How can it help animals to *restrict* the number of homes available to them? How does it help agriculture to characterize farmers as abusers who lay awake nights thinking up ways to torture their animals?

Wayne Pacelle has bragged about the ‘thousands of laws he’s gotten passed at all levels of government’. And *none* of them protects animals in any way whatsoever.

What farmers need to do is scream ‘slander’ and ‘libel’, and like Nebraska, categorically refuse to play the appeasement game.

If they don’t, most of us really may end up trying to live on a vegan diet. I don’t know how much *you* can afford to pay for a dozen eggs or a pound of ground beef, but they won’t have to go too far to price me right out of my omnivorous diet.

@Missy - Seems you have never shopped in a ‘Natural’ food store, (huge misnomer where lots of their products are concerned), or other specialty food source which caters to vegans.

Most of those products are offered as vegan, as Kosher food is offered as Kosher. Vegan shampoos, mixes, *supplements* ... everything you can think of. No animal derived products whatever in them. They are horrendously expensive, of course.

Vegetarians do not avoid all products containing animal based components. Vegetarians use dairy products, many use eggs and/or fish and seafood. They have as much to lose as the rest of us if HSUS et al get their way.

There is a huge material difference between the vegetarian diet and the vegan lifestyle. Please don’t confuse them. I have never known a vegetarian who politicized his diet, or tried to make me believe it is the only ‘right’ way to eat.

Actually, there are a lot of self described vegans who don’t foist the diet on us, either, and they are inclined to become indignant when we criticize them. But generally, they don’t associate their diet with abolition of all animals (many keep pets, too), and very often they are forced by health issues to abandon the diet because it is not healthy for most people. The vegan percentage of the population, including those, has remained stable around 2% of the population for decades, because there is a huge turnover. Young people enthusiastically adopt the diet (often without realizing there is a political agenda associated with it, or that ultimately it means giving up their pets), but can’t continue it for long and are replaced with other newbie enthusiasts.

It is those purist vegans at the top management of the AR/vegan movement who are the problem.

Hope that clarifies the issue for some of you, including some vegetarians who feel we are attacking them, which we are not. The two diets are very different, and veganism is a lifestyle, or some see it as a religion or cult, which is probably true.