We’ll see how it plays out in court, where actual facts are necessary. This lawsuit does not change the fact that animals in circuses are abused. The things they are forced to do are not what wild animals are designed to do.

“The things they are forced to do are not what wild animals are designed to do. “

If that is your standard of abuse, then yes, all animals in human care (including the Black Beauty Ranch and other sanctuaries), are victims of abuse.  Wild animals are not designed to be held under control, fed, provided with medical attention, exploited for animal rights fund raising, etc.

Most of us have a different definition of the term.

David, I’m astounded by this one and look forward to reading your updates on it.

No, my definition of abuse is using hooks, whips, and chains to “train” them to do the things they don’t do naturally. Something tells me one cannot train an elephant to walk on its hind legs which were not designed to support the full weight of the animal is not done by kind words and positive reinforcement. Is there really a need for this kind of “entertainment” these days?

Whips & Chains!  Oh, My!  Seriously, these do not hurt an elephant.  Neither do the bull hooks.  These are legitimate training tools that have been used for thousands of years in Asian countries that depend on these animals.  And before you claim that thousands of years of history is abuse, too, please try to remember that we’re talking about elephants.  These animals will not tolerate abuse.  You abuse an elephant, and that animal is probably going to make you regret it.

I hadn’t realized that elephants were the only animals too dumb to respond to positive reinforcement.

Truth_Monger- Animals in circuses WERE abused, maybe, just like freaks in sideshows, blacks on plantations, and children in homes. Today, the circuses know those animals are their livelihood. People like Rider get paid to “expose” things that were the norm before he was born. Maybe he could also “expose” the separate seating for blacks in “all” circuses?

<blockquote“The things they are forced to do are not what wild animals are designed to do. “</blockquote>

Yeah, right. I was born naked and my mommy forced me to wear clothes, walk upright, and pee in a potty.  If you followed the “news” of the animal seizure in Marion County Texas, well, Mrs. Hoffmann and her late husband used to have those big cats in an act that did NOT force them to do anything, but utilized their natural movements and abilities. No flaming hoop-jumps or ball balancing or stuff.  But I’m sure they had their picketers too. Now she doesn’t have to worry about anybody complaining. People got her valuable animals for free.

I do not for one minute beieve that an animal can be taught to do something that it will not do naturally or in the wild.  If an elephant can be taught to stand on its hind legs, it will do this in the wild.
I would imagine that when fighting, or mating, elephants stand on those big back legs on a regular basis.
If a lion will jump through a hoop of flames, it will do the same if the brush is burning in Afirica.
What all need to understand is that there are tools used in the training of all types of animals.  This does not in any way mean that they are being abused.
Abuse is when one harms a human or animal on purpose and does not care that they have caused/inflicted pain.  It is also when they do not feed the animal, or they do not take proper medical care of an animal that they claim to own and love.
Animal rights activists need to learn something about animals before they yell abuse.  Ignorance is a big issue among these activists.  They just do not understand and they believe whatever they have been told.  The HSUS is about one thing, to raise money for the use of its high profile employees.  They show the same old tired pictures of animals that they have had for years and harp on the same old issues.  This is done because it worked to bring in money in the past and so they continue to do the same thing over and over.  It is all about the money and none of it goes to help any animal.
They do no good for any animal.  It is way past time that they were exposed as the shell game that they are.

Right you are, jad. Take the elephant hook for example. It’s also called a bull hook. I knew one circus man -who never actually worked with elephants, TG- who claimed they have to be needle-sharp. In reality, they are about as sharp as a “Sharpee” felt pen. You could slap your hand on an elephant’s side and she’d hardly notice, the skin is so thick and tough. So the hook’s point penetrates the skin’s large pores, where she is sensitive enough to feel the thing. Only when they are used incorrectly can they be abusive. And then, it wouldn’t matter WHAT is used! The point is, the tool itself is not abusive. Chimps are disciplined with a fist punch to their forehead. Seeing that, you might think it’s abuse -till you see how they treat each other in the wild! A chimp can take being clobbered on the head with a big stick, and hardly grunts, their skulls are so tough. Normal dog-training techniques, if used on a human child, would be considered cruel. Yes, it helps to learn about the animals involved before screaming “abuse!”

You need to check your facts T-Monger.  What I read from you is a bunch of nonsense.  Why would someone want to abuse an animal that they make a profit from?  They would not.  They would want to take care of the animal as best as they could.  The problem here is your definition of abuse.  It is the PETA definition.  The facts did come out in court and the facts are that animal-rights activist will stop at nothing to try and impose there religion on everyone else.  Here are some facts:

http://www.ringlingbrostrialinfo.com/uploadedFiles/Elephant Care Fact Sheet F4.pdf

I hope and pray that Feld Entertainment wins this RICO lawsuit.  This needs to be pursued again and again until all of these extortionist groups have to fold.  I am willing to help fund this lawsuit or any others that may replicate this one.

Large animals used in the circuses ARE in fact often abused.  All this crap about chains, whips, etc not being abusive?  Evidently, you grew up with that being the norm in your own home. 

As for elephants normally walking on their hind legs in the wild?  Please…  You want to compare that to an elephant pro-creating in the wild? 

These animals do not get to ever enjoy the natural things like grazing, roaming and getting fresh air because they are kept in cages too small for any of those activities.  How is this humane? 

And, yes, it is possible to make an elephant or other wild animals to do things they don’t want to.  It’s called intimidation and torture.  I see it all the time in the horse industry.  You can take a 1,000 # animal that could easily kill a human, but with the right “tools/ weapons”, you can succumb that animal to a quivering and intimidated animal that will do what its told just to avoid the fear of more pain.

Wake up people!

It doesn’t matter that the humane society got sued for millions of dollars—there are lots of people always donate money to make them rich, helping them, not helping the animals.

It saddens me to read the misinformation in many of these comments ~ most of which are coming from those who probably don’t wake every morning and care for animals/elephants and/or have ever even touched one!

The comment from Buddy L. really does hit the nail on the head. Animal training has in fact EVOLVED as has the treatment of human beings which historically was also horrific! As a professional in the animal industries today who does in fact care for animals/elephants daily, I can honestly say that training methods NO LONGER INCLUDE the use of punishment or pain to accomplish a desired response from the animal(or human I hope…)The use of equipment described by many of the comments is also not abusive, IF USED PROPERLY! And if used properly, the animals/elephants become extremely comfortable with it and it can in fact, save their lives one day. Proper use of such equipment should be an everyday occurrence, especially on elephants, not just something you pull out of closet last minute when they are already sick and depleted. Again, its the use, not the equipment not the equipment itself that defines abuse. I’ve seen dogs injured by foolish people using their leash and collars improperly ~ I’ve seen horses suffer from those who use the bits in their mouths improperly but we certainly don’t talk about eliminating those tools…and the lives of those animals are far better for having such tools available to their lives.

Without dismissing the need and importance of captive animal facilities and not being in the circus industry, I can say without prejudice that I feel animals kept CORRECTLY in that environment see a far healther and mentally stimulating life than those kept in many other captive situations that are only able to offer an enclosure and food. True, those enclosures might appear to be Gardens of Eden but in fact, they are still enclosures to the animals, the rest we do for our gain. Mental stimulation is far more difficult to achieve in these facilities than in a “good” circus. Medical literature states that if we were to take away ALL forms of stress from a human’s existence, the human body will grow ill and die. Stress is not always defined as a negative thing, it can also amount to a job responsibility, a busy schedule with rewards for your achievements, the ability to travel and see different surroundings daily, the absence of boredom, the need and ability to learn new things ~ all defining what a “good” circus can easily offer animals/elephant. As for asking animals to do things they wouldn’t do in the wild or want to do in captivity (as so many commented on), I again call upon those people to afford the animals the same thought process as humans. I don’t want to pay taxes ~ but I have to! My kids don’t want to bathe, but I force them to! And once they get the hang of it with age and experience, they not only accept it, they understand it therefore what was at first a negative to them became positive. The same applies to animal being asked to perform a task in entertainment or otherwise. Many animals actually learn to look forward to the task of learning a new behavior for with today’s training techniques, it usually involves lots of treats!

Animals in captivity are the insurance policy for their species in the wild and yes, a captive population of ALL animals is a very necessary and valuable thing. Again, those feeling otherwise are not the ones responsible for Species Survival Plans etc… It’s unfortunately too easy to criticize and influence that which we know little about and are not ultimately responsible for but that’s what I read too much of in the above comments.

If extremist activists were more willing to consider happy mediums, especially for those who have little (if any) hands on experience, they would in fact be “a part of the evolution” instead of a road block in front of it. I consider myself an animal activist that struggles to present such an alternative for I welcome any and all suggestions that will make my training and the evolution of training overall better for me and my animals.

My hat’s off to Mr.Feld and his organization for bringing a much need focus on the illegal activities of any/all who threaten the truth and evolution of captive animal care. He and his staff have our deepest appreciation and respect.

Midwest - The nonsense you wrote tells me that you know absolutely nothing about equine training.  No one would use a “tools/ weapons” to reduce a horse to a “quivering and intimidated animal.”  This would be completely counter productive and result in a unusable horse.  Did you make your observations on a HSUS or a PETA website?

Dear Fact Checker….

I in fact know A GREAT DEAL about equine training.  Want to read up on a recent situation where a halter trainer was pummeled in a very prestigious show last week because the horse basically had lost it mentally from previouse abuse?  It happens ALL THE TIME in the horse industry.  I am in it, so I know just a little about it.  I will not participate in those practices, but I see it ALL the TIME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTzSrHTgwAs

Don’t be so clueless!

As a professional horse trainer holding a degree in Equine Management AND a fan and student of circus training, I’m compelled to rectify some of Midwest and Truth_Monger’s statements.

FACT - Many circus animals are given every possible opportunity for ‘natural’ behavior, fresh air and sunshine while on the road. Grazers are picketed or hand-grazed on fresh pasture in the sunshine and fresh air. Big cats often have free time in an outside enclosure (if possible). There are pictures of elephants enjoying a break in local swimming holes. All animals are kept in ‘natural’ conditions during the off season.

FACT - Whips, chains and elephant hooks are all able to be used in a humane and gentle manner. The ONLY time I’ve ever resorted to using a whip as a ‘weapon’ was when being attacked by a breeding stallion. On the other hand, my lunge whip is possibly the most important training aid I use when starting a new horse. Rarely do I even need to make contact and then only as a gentle (tapping) reinforcement to a cue.

FACT - A quivering and intimidated animal is the one MOST LIKELY to respond by attacking/killing its handler/trainer. Noone with any concern for an animal’s wellbeing is going to put the animal, themselves or others in so dangerous a situation.

I would strongly suggest you attend any of the many shows, conferences and fairs held for livestock and pets. You will QUICKLY see they police their own very well, with abusers promptly reprimanded or ejected from the event.

Fellas, seriously! This isn’t about the merits or drawbacks of animal training or abuse. It’s about a nationally recognized ‘humane’ organization utilizing guerilla tactics to achieve a desired outcome. With the results to the benefit of no one but themselves. Certainly not the ‘victims’ donors believed they were helping.
Whether you’re an animal Advocate or not, what this organization has allegedly done is criminal. It taints the methods & beliefs of those do Advocate.
With great wealth comes great responsibility. Someone forgot the Mission for the money.

I agree with you Lee but at the same time I am not going to allow a liar or liars to post total bull without responding.  I am not going to listen to this anymore.  I have had it with this complete nonsense and I am going to speak my mind.  This is all about the lies, the deceit and the dishonesty. I am going to address it at every level from the top liar on down.

I have been invoved with animal welfare for many years.  The HSUS is not doing something awful to make money.  They are trying to free an imprisoned and miserable animal by any means possible and bring to light that using animals for entertainment is not worth the pain you inflict.

A suffering animal is not fun to watch if you open your eyes and realize that that is what you are truly looking at whenever you go to the circus or zoo.

These are not necessary industrys.
Find another trade guys!

Ah, yes. Midwest knows all about elephants from his equine experiences!  After all, an elephant is just a fat horse, right? You can just look at the sad face of a poor elephant, swaying back and forth and tugging on that evil chain, and know she’s abused. -NOT. Fact is, you can’t paint a human expression on ANY animal. An animal does not smile or frown the way a person does. Fact is, elephants always sway. Watch a National Geographic film of wild pachyderms and you’ll see them swaying contentedly—mostly the cows. If Granny is swaying in her rocker, should we turn her loose in the fields? Fact- if the elephant really wanted, she or he could snap that puny chain like a grocery string! The elephant is simply tugging on it for reassurance. If it did happen to break, she’‘d be confused. Dogs will test the end of their leash too. -Just like humans testing their limits, and kids testing their parents’ patience. And you say circus elephants are kept in a box? Which old movie did you see that in?  They are usually the first ones out of transport.

Every industry has a few bad apples. It’s good to weed them out and get rid of them. But to claim they are proof that everybody else is as bad as them? I think not. Now the tables are turned, though, and people are starting to judge the HSUS and others by YOUR behavior and misinformation.

You won’t find many people more ‘anti’ animal abuse than me; I find zoos and circuses repugnant. I find commercial animal slaughter & transport for slaughter horrifying. Animals as research subjects? Time to step into the technical age. BLM Roundups? Punish them ALL. But this is an agency touted as a National organization fighting to end needless suffering, and they have allegedly gone to extremes, not to champion the animals, but to line their own pockets at the expense of the animals.
I would be as outraged if any charitable organization got caught NOT doing the job for which the money was donated for. Subjugating others to line your own pockets is beyond monstrous. And this will do nothing to aid the elephants either, will it?

I can NOT believe all that I,&, the rest of America,have been hearing!! First of all, it is MY opinion that the Humane Society of the US,&, other animal welfare organizations,do a VERY GOOD thing for animals all over the world,SOMEONE needs to be their voice!!I think this is a case of extreme FEAR on the part of the idiots who are suing animal welfare groups,I think this is the only way for them to “try” to fight back against the truth!!This is pure greed & EVIL trying to destroy what is CARING & GOOD!!I will ALWAYS be on the side of good,the HSUS, &, others like them!!

Oh BuddyL, I guess you have a degree in Veterinary Science or something similar that you speak with such absolute knowledge?  If so, you should qualify your statements as such.  Abuse happens in all forms.

Randy perhaps if you are a horse trainer, then you are well ware of the abuse that goes on getting horses in the ring.

Thousands of people send horses off to trainers that intentionally employ abusive methods all for the mighty ribbon/ sweepstakes payouts.  Some owners know this in advance, others don’t.  I don’t have to have a degree in anything to read and be aware of what goes on.  Try do a little reading.

I cant believe how so many folks can be suckered in by the H$U$ and its sister group PETA??  They do care for any animals in any shelters in any state.  They took in millions of dollars over the Mike Vick dogs, claiming they needed funds for their care and shelter.  After they raised approx., 7 million dollars they claimed the dogs would have to be put down.  Fortunately they dogs were rescued for H$U$ and given a new lease on life and living with new owners and good families.  They claimed they need to raise money for the animals that got separated from their owners in the aftermath of Katrina??  They raised something like 34 million dollars.  They didn’t rescue nothing until the Attorney General of Louisiana was gonna prosecute them for fraud and then they built a new shelter in New Orleans to keep the law off them.  Most the animals that they did find were sent to other shelters around the country and adopted out to other people instead of being returned to their original owners.  H$U$ is a dangerous group animal Nazis that should be investigated for their work with ALF and ELF, two groups known by the FBI as homegrown terrorist organizations.  Their whole purpose is to make every one a vegan.  They want to stop all animal agriculture and animal research that saves lives.  The American people hopefully will wake up one day to whats happening to this country and why!!!!!

Perhaps YOU could reveal your sources of your statistics and YOUR qualifications, before asking for mine, Midwest? I’ll concede that abuse definitely does happen in all forms. If you only knew who I am… You’ve heard of me in the news, though by another name, which I’m not at liberty to give out at this time. But I’m sure Midwest is your real name too. -Nuff said.  According to Valerie, HSUS now has laryngitis, so someone has to speak for them. How much do they pay you, Val?

http://www.saveelk.com/wolf_002.htm

WOLF PROTECTION RACKETS IS WHAT HSUS DOES BEST

Those people emotionally charged with heartfelt sympathy for abused animals are themselves the primary victims of HSUS.  Any sensible and civilized person is against animal abuse and that is how it should be.  But HSUS plays upon our emotions solely to elicit our political support and more importantly, our money.  Contributing to HSUS doesn’t help rescue animals.  Contribute to your local shelter or other legitimate organization.  Supporting the efforts of HSUS doesn’t reduce cruelty to animals.  Volunteer for and support your local shelter.  Don’t let HSUS exploit your emotions and sucker you into their ranks.

How does the HSUS damage animal welfare causes?  It robs from them!  Every dollar that goes to the HSUS is a dollar that should have gone to a legitimate organization.

It’s about time that animal caregivers finally publicly stand up for themselves. I am a trainer as well as a preschool teacher and I love and treat fairly the animals I work with just as I do the kids in my care. I actually find the animals easier to work with.
Yet that is the work people always find fault with… Animals caregivers and trainer spend most of their live quietly battling stigmas and stereotypes that are outdated and misunderstood. It’s time the public get to see the other side (the inside) to this ever playing story. 
Hats off to those who will publicly make there voice heard and also push back, against those who understand so little of the world we all live in.
The day is not far off that the only place certain species live is in captivity. SO why can’t we live as friends, not just acquaintances? We expect our neighbors and the people in our towns to be friendly and approachable, can we not offer the same to the animals that live in “our” world.

Racketeering is a good word. This is the real problem. No-one supports abusing animals. If any abuse is happening then good-hearted people need to speak up. But the tactics of the animal welfare organisations are not directed at ending animal abuse. Whatever the sins of the HSUS I am willing to bet that they are exceeded in multiple by the sins of the RSPCA, both in the UK and Australia. For my beginning analysis and record of experience of being prosecuted by the RSPCA, see (google exactly as written here, in caps, etc .)
RSPCA UNMASKED : PART ONE
and
RSPCA UNMASKED : PART TWO

Valeria you are one of their victims, they brain washed you I’ll bet you donated to them they sucked you!

I have a question—can I copy the court action and send it to newspapers/mags, and not get sued for spreading the truth ?

What amazes me is…all the money spent on litigation and the salaries of ALL humane organizations’ paid personnel could have been used to spay/neuter every dog and cat in the U.S., build ranches where unwanted pets could live out their days, and pay for all their upkeep until they passed.  As a former humane investigator and shelter manager, believe me I have seen how these groups waste money and contribute to pet overpopulation first hand.  If not for the domestication of wild animals, society would be vastly different from what we know it to be today. And an animal given a job in captivity is MUCH happier than one standing around a pen all day becoming deranged from boredom.

Wow!  I am so happy that the terrorists & extortionists who delight in lying & brainwashing people with their lies & misdirection from their own nefarious deeds are finally being put to mat.  I have had it with the whiners & bedwetters who blubber over a circus animal, who is well fed & lives actually quite well for most of it’s life, who is trained, yet think nothing of destroying businesses & properties, as well as murdering fellow human beings.  I have seen the horrors of both the HSUS & PETA, where animals were put to death simply because they fell into their hands under false premises & refuse to give an inch!  I am hoping that these homegrown terrorists & racketeers get all that they have given.  I am an animal lover.  While I have a penchant for all things feline & avian, I am especially fond of the greatest animal of them all: the human being & really take offense when we are equated to a garden snail.  I’ll gladly pass this information out to others who, like me, appreciate that all of the lies & misdeeds of the HSUS are being repaid in hopes that more exposure will help the cause.

Ya know something, in any situation, training tools CAN be abusive. The tools are not the abusers, the people are. In any situation, there are some who are very good with animals and take excellent care of them and there are those who are abusive. If the HSUS actually did somthing to stop true abusers, and left the rest of us who farm and “use” animals for their own benefit alone, then they wouldn’t be such a problem. But they are misleading people into donating tons of money that is NOT going to help animals in need but into propaganda to keep the cash flowing and into the top dog’s pockets to support their lifestyles. It is time they become accustom to a different lifestyle, once they are the ones in cages (that is; jail cells) then they can whine about mistreatment. And finally be accurate in their assessments. Any organization that is this misleading needs to be prosecuted and disbanded. All their proceeds need to be turned over to real organizations that actually do something for real animals in trouble. Or refunded to the people they conned it from in the first place except those people would just turn around and throw it away again.  Don’t people ever research what they are supporting anymore?

My son is an entertainer, working for Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey as a an illusionist in “Illusination”.  He and his wife are AVID animal lovers, where that passion continues on stage and off.  They have nothing but deep respect and admiration for Ringling Brothers, and the way ALL entertainers are treated, animals AND the employees.

Off subject a bit, but I read a funny statement by one of the HSUS supporters that I had to share. She said that breeders and other animal keepers are deplorable because they impose their human will on the animals, by forcing them to breed, while in the next breath stating that all animals should be spayed/neutered. I wondered if she heard herself speak. REALLY? Breeding is imposing human will, while spay/neuter is a grand alternative. WOW I wonder what jungle the animals are spaying each other in? Please clue me in, I want you to educate me.

@wildone….thanks for your post..very well done and very informative.. And you can tell that you are professional.

New to the site and just thought I would say hello

OMG!!!! I have read some stupid things in my time but some of these comments…..truly win the contest!. If you feel that these animals are not abused and that they truly enjoy the life of the circus perhaps we should subject you to the same forms of treatment, confinement and teaching methods that they must endure.

i totally agree Gizmo

How did the lawsuit turn out?

ABOUT TIME!!!! H$U$ needs to be exposed to the people out there. They wouldn’t be getting donations for their political agendas if people really knew that they ARE NOT helping animals. THEY EVEN ADMIT IT!!!! Seriously people if your intentions are to help those poor neglected animals that you see in the commercials forget about it. GO to your local shelter and donate your time or money because thats where its needed. H$U$ is only out to line their own pockets!!!!!